Thanks for providing your insights on this important topic.

I have a question:

You wrote: “…cost of living can be EXTREMELY low in rural villages. …We live large on less than most do in SE Asia!”

Could you please recommend some of those rural villages or areas in Spain that have a low cost of living. I speak fluent Spanish (I grew up in S. America) and I’m planning to spend at least a month in Spain next year.

As long as there’s Internet Connectivity I don’t care if I have to live in a stone hut. :)

Your plan of going to Croatia after 3 months sounds like a great idea. It’s an awesome place still outside the Euro zone I believe which makes it more affordable.

Regards,

Liz

I’m currently working on getting my site together at the moment so will post that later.

Thanks in advance. :)

I’ve had more help on this blog than anywhere else in recent memory. So believe me when I tell you, I want to stay around here, even if only to see what I can do for others. I’ve already found out there’s at least one person here who’s got similar, and even worse, challenges.

However, I must refute a couple of your statements that I feel made assumptions without prior knowledge. I didn’t get my first credit card until I was 44, a year before I went off. I had never had one, ever. I had an $8,000 student loan that took me over 15 years to pay off due to nothing more than a low income at a time when prices were rising dramatically.

I started after college as a secretary, before most offices had computers. Later I became an editorial assistant and then a copy editor. After all those years, I have yet to reach 30K per year in the states. I only just reached it in Japan.

I have never owned a car newer than 11 years old, have never had an apartment in the states with a separate bedroom, and have never worn anything remotely “designer” in my life.

So please don’t assume I was living “above my means.” You don’t know me — or millions of others like me.

I’ve not spent the entire 10 years in the same debt. When I first went off, I had $2,000 and a big dream. I ended up in debt because I went to Spain and tried. So … after staying with friends back home for a (thankfully) brief period, I found an English teaching job in Japan and after 18 months there returned to L.A. with credit card balances at 0 and a 5-figure bank balance.

I’d never seen 5 figures in my life. You really could make things happen in Asia in those days!

So I used that to go back to Spain and try again. At that time, I had no laptop. I should have bought one then, but they were still expensive then and I figured I’d get one “later.” Ok, that was a mistake.

Everyone I spoke with in Spain told me the same thing — potential employers, friends of every nationality, people living legally and illegally: You can work under the table, you can live here or there, but you can’t get papers, no matter how “qualified” you manage to get.

I returned to my sister’s house in Pa. with the proverbial tail between my legs several months later. After staying with my mother for a while (she’s now deceased), I returned to L.A. when my friends asked me to cat-sit for them while they went for a vacation in Europe (how ironic).

When they returned, they expected me to leave immediately. But I had only managed to find work telemarketing (believe me, I wouldn’t wish that on anyone) and couldn’t afford even a room.

By an incredible stroke of luck (I was getting older and Asia is very age-biased), I got another teaching gig in Japan soon after.

I was once again in debt during this next interlude — not because I was irresponsible but because I could only get work telemarketing. This debt wasn’t as bad, though.

I left again for Japan. Ten months later, with my debt cleared, I got word that my mother was dying (imminent, they said) and she wanted to see me. I broke contract immediately and returned to Pa.

I spent the next 4 and a half years substitute teaching, in which I wasn’t exactly a success, doing this and that during summers, earning an income that, when I did my taxes, averaged out to a regular year-round job at the current minimum wage. Living in a rented room and driving an 11-year-old car. I attended my niece’s wedding in a $15 dress. And believe me, you could tell.

So yes, I got into debt again, trying desperately to survive on a tiny income that, whatever anyone else judges, you quite simply cannot live on in the U.S. You cannot. Period.

A little more serious than just someone “living above their means.”

As for preventing disaster in the first place by not “allowing” it to happen, I spent 2 decades before I went off on this odyssey trying to find a viable way to go after my dream. I quite simply couldn’t find one. At 45 I decided to just go after it. I was tired of waiting. If I just went, the parachute would appear on faith and good thinking. It didn’t happen.

It’s easy to make assumptions. But you can multiply me by the millions. And yes, most would indeed end up like me. I simply did not have the necessary resources. I didn’t have a high-paying corporate career to leave behind; I didn’t have the right nationality or the right connections or the right skills at the right time …

Tony gives a list of my “skills.” I am a copy editor with 15 years of experience. And I am good at it. I never marketed it formally because all copy editors today are knowledgeable technically and can format anything whether online or off. I don’t even know how to access someone’s website to edit it. What in the world kind of pitch could I possibly give?

I believe I mentioned my Spanish was only on an intermediate level. For those who have never studied languages, that means you are conversational in a basic way. You are certainly nowhere near a level at which you could market yourself as a translator! The only way I could ethically use it professionally at this time is as an English teacher at one of the many schools in Spain where they require you to have some knowledge of Spanish — IF they could sponsor me for a visa. Which they cannot.

So logically and ethically I don’t list it as a skill. Yet.

Typing? I love what you did, Tony, listing my skills. But I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. No one hires a typist anymore, online or off. Anyone my age or older remembers when typing skill alone would get you a job tomorrow. Not a good-paying job and you were stuck in an office (not even a cubicle but in someone’s outer office) … But it got the rent paid and you could always count on it even in bad times. I didn’t like having to do it but I did a good 75 words a minute. In those days that got you a desk somewhere and a roof over your head.

No more. Do you know how many desperate women there are out there who’d love a chance for an at-home typing job? They’re not location independent. That’s eons beyond them. They’re just trying to get out of Wal-Mart or the local telemarketing joint or maybe they can’t afford a babysitter or maybe their 15-year-old car gave out and they have no transportation.

I’m on blogs and forums with such women, I’m friends with some back “home,” and believe me, they make few assumptions.

And, they’re not getting typing jobs. There are no typing jobs. There are computer jobs (well, some, these days not many). Like me, many of these women and some men are my age and got caught between eras unable to pay for training.

Those “negative” statements were facts. Every one of them. I felt facts were important if I was going to give information. Next time, I’ll leave out such facts when on blogs. Not on my website, that’s for sure. I’ve no intention of lying about my skill level. I’d imagine any potential client would want to know what they’re about to pay for.

Know that if I were your coach, I’d want to know all the facts to respond effectively, just as Alex has.

Carmen: I’ve spoken several times to the owner of Vaughn Systems. (He’s an American who’s lived in Spain for over 25 years, having gotten in when it was far easier). His English Town is well known in the region, but the room and board they provide is only for a week at a time. It’s appropriate for someone on vacation or passing through the region, definitely for someone who already knows where they’re going next week.

I looked into Servas years ago when I was first leaving L.A. It’s also on my list for when I have to leave here, if I find I need a place for 1 or 2 days. You can sometimes stay with someone for 3 nights, rarely for longer than that. Servas is not designed for longer-term stays. It’s strictly for travelers passing through, even shorter than English Town.

I am a TEFL teacher, on my third gig in Japan. If English teaching provided a way to live anywhere you wanted, good pay at any time or place, and a chance to retire when your time came, I’d already be well on my way. But as I said, I’d always known since I started that the time would come when I’d have to move on. By its nature TEFL does have a specific shelf life. You can do it indefinitely but you can’t depend on it indefinitely. It gets harder to get jobs as you get older. And harder to do them.

Virtual assistantship sounds perfectly appropriate for Midnite Daydream who has the appropriate technical knowledge and background. Check out AssistU.com, the best-known training program. It makes an automatic assumption that you have corporate background as an admin. I’ve never been an admin.

Before I became a copy editor, I was a secretary. In those quaint times when new computers were called word processors (remember CPT, Wang, etc.? Never did get to learn any of them), and you typed extremely carefully, as well as fast. Correcting your mistakes wasn’t an automatic backspace but an interruption of your work to open a tiny bottle of white stuff called Liquid Paper. It really made a mess of my efficiency. So I got good. Very good.

Like the venerated gifted wagon maker of old, the typist has entered the history books.

Those books and websites about people who succeed in location-independent living or living where or how they want … they are the exceptions. Many of you are the exceptions. That’s why you’re newsworthy. That’s why people read about you.

We’re the majority you don’t read about in books.

Oh, and Alex, thanks for your latest response. I still think you’re the cream as a coach. You just have a brilliant, compassionate way of getting down to the dirty details — and you don’t mind hearing those details because they help in your response.

I may possibly become a coach myself in a couple of years to supplement copy editing and whatever my day job is by then. I think I hinted I’d studied … I just added a new mentor.

Anyway, after all that … I do have some great news after being “featured” on this blog. Anthony and I are meeting in Japan this Saturday to discuss my setting up a simple website to market copy editing. Lea had some other brilliant ideas and resources so I can get started in that, at least.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for your help!

Not sure if I can make anything from it in such a short time, but if, for example, December came with no new job here but I hear about something in, say, Prague, I may be able to go there if I know I’ve supplemental income to make c.c. payments.

At least I’d be on the Continent. At least until I found some kind of permanent opportunity I could retire from in the States.

BTW I realize we’re in horrible economic times and no it’s not just a “recession.” But the statement that there’s no chance for anyone there is itself negative. I still think people are going to retire even if they have to leave the country once they’re finished working to live on modest or even meager retirement income. But most U.S. Americans will actually earn their retirement income while still in the States.

No, you’re not going to see “retirement” as it used to be considered: experts writing articles telling you you must have $1 million to retire, couples taking luxury cruises, etc. And many of us are not couples. But I do feel there’s enough solvency left to at least let people have the money we put in, if not much more. I believe, in my age group, we will probably see our social security — especially those of us on the bottom income rungs.

Those of you younger or richer … perhaps not all of it. Much younger, perhaps not any of it. But I feel we will. I’m not counting on anything. But I must look at likely scenarios. I have literally no other alternatives at 55 and broke than to look at the practical and perhaps the straight-and-narrow for a while longer.

And I didn’t get to be 55 and broke by being irresponsible. I love you all but I don’t like any implication that I was. What I am is in an economic stratum rather lower than most of you.

Thank you all again. Good things have come out of this.

All human’s do stinking thinking, especially when frustrated, but monitoring that and bringing in conscious positive focus/ reframing can be another valuable tool to acquire.

I don’t thing positive focus negates practicality or reality at all. In fact I think they go hand in hand & all 3 MUST be a part of an LI plan or manifesting/maintaining ANY dream. Living in denial is a very different thing than positive focus.

Also being willing to shift to a plan b,c.d or how many it takes well BEFORE one is totally out of money & deep in debt is essential (all the more so at 45 to 55 years old… with no place to live).

Sadly too many babyboomers have created unsustainable lives based on debt just like America has. So sad. I sure would not hold my breath for social security or health care to be a given for babyboomers. You seem unaware just how deeply in debt & broke the US is in this chronic collapse with no quick fixes available.

This is not an ordinary recession, but a new paradigm shift and US is beyond broke. Without the dollar being the reserve currency, the US crisis would be just like Argentina’s or Iceland’s. It is already beginning to lose it’s reserve currency status, just as Britain did many years ago. That will change everything as will peak oil.

Retirement will no longer be like it was for our parents..not in today or tomorrow’s US. Remember too that Spain has been VERY hard hit by the recession & that will impact things. We have seen huge changes every year & expect more, so it will probably a much different Spain that you will return to. One must always look ahead to big picture trends while planning!

More than ever, people need to learn to be financially responsible savvy & live sustainable lives, more so perhaps if they want to live a LI life. In bad times, cash is king (those who had cash during the great depression thrived!) & debt is almost as bad as the plague, so I would get rid of your debt first even if it means bankruptcy perhaps. But only you know your details and strongest desires.

Sounds like you have dealt with this huge credit card debt for over 10 years! Yikes. Painful to read! So much good help online now on how to get rid of debt & live large on little!!

I am really sorry that you have had such a rough road over the last 10 years & truly hope your plans can turn it around.

I do have to disagree with you that “people do the straight-and-narrow because most would end up where I am otherwise.”. Perhaps that is the fear, but with good planning, constant reevaluation & adaption too many have thrived now with the LI lifestyle (the Terhorsts for over 20 years!) and many who have done the straight and narrow without saving or living below their means are in worst shape than you!

Good luck to you and God’s speed!

@Mia
Yes, that’s another job as well – or combine a bunch of things to get several different income streams going.

@Midnite Daydream
Hugs on your situation and I’m glad that this post came at just the right time for you. In the entrepreneur world, many people start young and with money from high-paying jobs or from family to help them through the slow transition. But most of the world doesn’t have these advantages. Glad to help!

@Anthony
Hope you and Ana get a chance to connect!

@Karen
Thanks. Funny thing is as a small business person, it’s advice I need to take myself. That’s one of the benefits of being a mentor/coach – I advise myself as much as my clients. ;)

@Nora
I love your nickname! And being Location Independent doesn’t have to involve moving. My business is totally location independent but I’ve chosen (for love) to stay in one spot.

@Marion
I did the move the other way around – I started in France in 2006 and a year later moved to Spain. ;) As Ana said, the whole passport thing is a real obstacle. Thanks for the offer to help with Ana’s situation.

@Ana
I feel incredibly fortunate that my father being born in the UK gave me the right to a European passport and that makes me want to help others who aren’t so lucky parent-wise.

And thank you for your kind words. In this post you summed up my exact philosophy of coaching – which I prefer to think of as mentoring since I’m full of suggestions rather than leading you to your own answers. I’m so happy that this difference came shining through for you! ;)

Plus good for you for taking my suggestions with a grain of salt – I don’t know your exact situation or your preferences, so yay for taking what I wrote and twisting it to fit with who you are.

@Lea
Great suggestion about the editing. And it sparks an idea for my own business (yes, I’m open to twisting other people’s ideas for my own business ;) )

@Jeanne
With all the obstacles in Ana’s way over so many years I understand completely why she’s frustrated by things. I get insanely frustrated sometimes and I have a whole lot more advantages in this sort of situation. ;)

Great suggestions you’ve added to the conversation! Thanks! (Glad to hear you’re back in Spain after the accident, btw)

@Nicholas
Thanks for the offer! That’s so cool of you!

@Mia
Good suggestions! I have a friend who’s a translator and I’m going to pass along the websites.

@Tony
Nice reframing of the situation in very positive way. You’re right. Ana does have a whole lot of things going for her and I think the original message came out of frustration (which tends to produce negative words).

Good idea re the list of attributes and skills.